[Survival Server] Suggestion for Anti griefing

[DezS4125]

SERVER SUGGESTION

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What platform is this suggestion for?: Survival Server

Description

Make /l ban to not have banned player permission to put block or kill animal in the chunks in 2 radius from the claimed chunk of that land (to be in sync with not having players to be able to claim land too near another land)

(I'm lazy to write the benefits and problems this time)

Note: this will not end the griefing, but simply make the griefing to be less efficient in time and labor, more likely a type of punishment for the griefer

[TickleMyPickle]

Greetings DezS!

This suggestion, for me personally, does not make sense for me at all.

There are already multiple anti-griefing features on the server, such as:

• "Allow pistons from wilderness"
• "Fire spread"
• "TNT griefing"
• "Allow water from wilderness"

All of these can be accessed from the /l menu. Furthermore, players cannot claim land closer than 4 chunks away from another claimed chunk. Even if your suggestion was to go through, people who want to grief would still find a way to do it. 

TL;DR

Do not teleport players you do not trust next to your base. Most of the griefs on the server happen because players randomly teleport each other around and they /sehome outside bases and troll them.

[DezS4125]

Sidenote pickle, read the topic a bit longer for your "All of these can be accessed from the /l menu. Furthermore, players cannot claim land closer than 4 chunks away from another claimed chunk. Even if your suggestion was to go through, people who want to grief would still find a way to do it.". As i stated in the topic "this will not end the griefing, but simply make the griefing to be less efficient in time and labor, more likely a type of punishment for the griefer". It's the same with the normal banning punishment, people can use VPN to bypass bans and mutes, It's unrealistic to complete stop something with one easy solution without consequence, so don't expect that.

Also, the idea the suggestion is for some people, for example like to put lava around your base, like lava boxing your base outside the claim, which is pretty easy to do as a griefer, and pretty hard to fix as a base owner. The suggestion is mainly for the griefer, as if they want to box the land again in lava, they will have to do it in a larger scale -> impact on griefer morale

[DezS4125]

@TickleMyPickle
Also, a small experience as an old moderator, for people who like to mess with others in real life and internet, most likely they are doing it for fun. Take the fun from them and they will likely to quit their doing. It simply work like this 

The satisfaction the guy gain (a) > the un-satisfaction he get (b)-> the guy will continues his doing
The satisfaction the guy gain (a) < the un-satisfaction he get (b) -> the guy will quit his doing

Also (a) and (b) is unique with each person, so a solid punishment are unrealistic to finish the whole problem, if you just use some person to measure and not a whole community. Again, don't expect such thing

[TickleMyPickle]

26 minutes ago, DezS4125 said:

 It's unrealistic to complete stop something with one easy solution without consequence, so don't expect that.

I am quite aware of this fact. But there is almost always a solution that will not have bad consequences, which, your ticket is not. At least in my opinion.

27 minutes ago, DezS4125 said:

It's the same with the normal banning punishment, people can use VPN to bypass bans and mutes

The server has a proxy blocker so this is extremely rare.

18 minutes ago, DezS4125 said:

 

Also, the idea the suggestion is for some people, for example like to put lava around your base, like lava boxing your base outside the claim, which is pretty easy to do as a griefer, and pretty hard to fix as a base owner. The suggestion is mainly for the griefer, as if they want to box the land again in lava, they will have to do it in a larger scale -> impact on griefer morale

 

It is a survival server, even if you add 2 chunk block area players would still put lava and walls around those 2 chunks. This would literally change nothing except, in your words, "make the griefing to be less efficient in time and labor". The time difference this would make is completely insignificant.
 

7 minutes ago, DezS4125 said:

@TickleMyPickle
Also, a small experience as an old moderator, for people who like to mess with others in real life and internet, most likely they are doing it for fun. Take the fun from them and they will likely to quit their doing. It simply work like this 

Adding the border will not make it less fun, if anything it would make it more enjoyable and exciting for the griefer as they notice that it would be harder than they originally imagined.

9 minutes ago, DezS4125 said:

The satisfaction the guy gain (a) > the un-satisfaction he get (b)-> the guy will continues his doing
The satisfaction the guy gain (a) < the un-satisfaction he get (b) -> the guy will quit his doing
 

This would work like that only in the most ideal of cases. Which are extremely rare and should not be taken into consideration as such. No player would get "less enjoyment" from simply having to overcome a 2 chunk barrier. As an experienced Survival player I can tell u that I personally made lava ditches even on distances of 40-50 blocks.

 

Ultranetwork is mostly a very friendly place with an amazing, developed community and griefing is extremely rare. And if griefing does happen, it is most likely because the two lands are at war or the members have some communication issues. Adding the extra untouchable chunks on the outskirts would just make it more difficult for friendly players to have fun together, as people tend to visit others and help them around their base.

 

Side note: you do not have to tag me for me to see what you wrote. I am following Suggestions actively. If I do not respond to a post/comment I either think there is no point in continuing the discussion, or I feel like I have nothing to add to it.

[DezS4125]

14 hours ago, TickleMyPickle said:

I am quite aware of this fact. But there is almost always a solution that will not have bad consequences, which, your ticket is not. At least in my opinion.

For this, halfsie true, but halfsie not, as you dig deeper using deeper knowledge, there's always consequences. But let's skip that, the main thing is, if the good consequence>bad consequence (depend on one's judge), it's a fine thing to that guy, although it's not to many others, as they either weight something higher and something lower (personal bias), or just don't see consequences (either personal filter or the lack of knowledge). I try to minimize the affection of my own personal bias, personal filter and my lack of knowledge (the reason i like arguing) to make suggestions, i know they won't ensure my suggestions to pass as it depend the owner's own likeness/bias on things

Note: I don't really believe in "common senses" and "justice" (for this i meant the thought of "Just one is right"), as many people uses the word as a thing to justifies their own actions, even if it hurt others. Rather, i just use them as a base to indentify majority. Also  I view things more in a more diverse way: bias, filter is two neutral words for me, so, sorry if I failed to connect it last night

Another note: because of the previous note, if you could, try to not use words such as right or wrong to short things, as i view it "subjective" and thus i often skip those words (unless it's used while i try to signify things below those words) while i thinking about it, which often resulting many problems of invalid arguments that come when i try to argue with myself, using the infos u give in your argument.
 

14 hours ago, TickleMyPickle said:

14 hours ago, DezS4125 said:

It's the same with the normal banning punishment, people can use VPN to bypass bans and mutes

The server has a proxy blocker so this is extremely rare.

Btw, it's a bit invalid argument here, as i just tell out examples, which might not even applies to this server, just to make parallel topic with the suggestion as i use that famous, easy but still effective punishment as a base for making my type of punishment. But hey, u still point out the fact of "It's unrealistic to complete stop something with one easy solution without consequence-if reverse, then it's not complete stop something". I'm avoid to draw a straight line in our world (to make this sentence less confuse, it's a subject in 
geomatry, which it's impossible in real world).

 

 

14 hours ago, TickleMyPickle said:

14 hours ago, DezS4125 said:

 

Also, the idea the suggestion is for some people, for example like to put lava around your base, like lava boxing your base outside the claim, which is pretty easy to do as a griefer, and pretty hard to fix as a base owner. The suggestion is mainly for the griefer, as if they want to box the land again in lava, they will have to do it in a larger scale -> impact on griefer morale

 

It is a survival server, even if you add 2 chunk block area players would still put lava and walls around those 2 chunks. This would literally change nothing except, in your words, "make the griefing to be less efficient in time and labor". The time difference this would make is completely insignificant.
 

14 hours ago, DezS4125 said:

@TickleMyPickle
Also, a small experience as an old moderator, for people who like to mess with others in real life and internet, most likely they are doing it for fun. Take the fun from them and they will likely to quit their doing. It simply work like this 

Adding the border will not make it less fun, if anything it would make it more enjoyable and exciting for the griefer as they notice that it would be harder than they originally imagined.

Another invalid argument, as you trying to use your type of griefer  as a base, rather than common griefers who is that "some people" i stated, unless "your type" are common in this community, then it's something to observe. I always use "some", "most",...etc... just to exclude some other type of people, which include your, as i doubt they are the majority of the server, again, it's subjective and need ways higher amount of research, which is still something that's not that possible to accurately do while survival just on for like 18 days. But hey, it's possible to have 2 or more "majority" types of griefer (same with others). I wouldn't deny or accept your type of griefer as this server might be more of an "exception" to have that as "majority" (although this also meant griefing will be less frequently but if there's griefing, it would be more dangerous than other server)

 

 

14 hours ago, TickleMyPickle said:

14 hours ago, DezS4125 said:

The satisfaction the guy gain (a) > the un-satisfaction he get (b)-> the guy will continues his doing
The satisfaction the guy gain (a) < the un-satisfaction he get (b) -> the guy will quit his doing
 

This would work like that only in the most ideal of cases. Which are extremely rare and should not be taken into consideration as such. No player would get "less enjoyment" from simply having to overcome a 2 chunk barrier. As an experienced Survival player I can tell u that I personally made lava ditches even on distances of 40-50 blocks.

 

Ultranetwork is mostly a very friendly place with an amazing, developed community and griefing is extremely rare. And if griefing does happen, it is most likely because the two lands are at war or the members have some communication issues. Adding the extra untouchable chunks on the outskirts would just make it more difficult for friendly players to have fun together, as people tend to visit others and help them around their base.

 

Side note: you do not have to tag me for me to see what you wrote. I am following Suggestions actively. If I do not respond to a post/comment I either think there is no point in continuing the discussion, or I feel like I have nothing to add to it.

-I will clarify this one, as it apply to majority of cases. (a) and (b) here is come from a base from a psychology base of people good (a) and bad (b) opinion, depend on situation and people, they will have different react to a situation, and they based on (a) and (b) to have different reaction on them. And as i stated above, i use "common sense" of griefer as a base, to make that formula that will be able to apply to the "majority" (which is subjective to people to decide on their own rn) (which formula yield pretty good results from my tests on many other communities). It's quite invalid argument as for my side, I don't refer your "experienced Survival player" as the "majority" i stated. Even so, it would likely to make "experienced survival player" to be less favor griefing others than other solutions for extracting rages and stuffs, which reduce the griefing situation (but well, if there is, it would be more extreme than the griefing you were stating rn)

-And thank, i had oversight-ed the warring things, that's a interesting case, I will do some research on that side, as i'm lacking the infos from that side and update my suggestion in maybe, several days later.

-Btw, my suggestion is kind of help as a tool when needed to reduce the grief of the members have some communication issues, it is a small but stacking protection for the scenery (as the war would continues with alts and friends is there to continues fixing the grief and griefing, which is an extra step that make people less favoring the griefing unless a player really go extreme on it, then the other can wait for the other to chill out, unless both is extreme and it will likely need an actual human to intervene tbh ;-;). It will take around 5-10 mins in between to create a new account, or around 1 min to login another alt, which to me, is a hassle because of the waiting, and i doubt if it not for the extreme griefer who wait to grief his friend, so there's tons of times people end up talking with each other to solve the problems.

-For "Adding the extra untouchable chunks on the outskirts would just make it more difficult for friendly players to have fun together, as people tend to visit others and help them around their base.", it's why i put it as a command /l ban, and not something too non-serious to do, if one ban another, the outskirts is still touchable via friend and alt and, the banned player can still go into the unclaimed chunks tho, just can't put block and things that might destroy the terraforming or the normal minecraft scenery unless they pay several mins to get in another account and mess with it and then go back, it's more of a balancer in labor for griefing and fixing in this case 

-There seem like tons of miscommunication in here tbh, as you and me thought about the different group of people as majority, thus making the arguments quite invalid to each others:
+For me, i favor the people who deem griefing is fun as they can do easy things to annoy others as majority.
+For you, you seem to favor the people  who deem griefing is fun as they do hard thing to annoy others as majority.
-It's possible for both cases to exist at the same time, but my suggestion is to tackle the first one and not the latter.

Regard,
Dezs